According to my closed captioning, this guy's name was Neill, not Neil. I'm not sure what the info is on IMDb or if there's another source for his name being Neil, but if there isn't then we should move this page back to Neill. -Kapoli 07:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- You sure? O_o If so, then my apologies. I'm watching Day 1 12:00pm-1:00pm right now and the closed captions has it as Neil. -WarthogDemon 07:53, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Weird! I guess it doesn't matter, then. I remember that my TV's closed-captioning for that episode called him Neill, because it struck me as an odd way to spell the name... but it wouldn't be the first time that my TV closed-captioning and the DVD closed-captioning are different. Eh, no big deal! Carry on! -Kapoli 08:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- We should probably work at it the same way we did with Suzy Brenner; use whatever way it was spelled first. I thought it was Neill too but then thought maybe I just wasn't reading it right. But if it was Neill the first time we should probably stick to it, so I'll move it back. -WarthogDemon 08:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, it seems it's Neill in the end credits so we'll stick to that. O_o -WarthogDemon 08:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Here is something very interesting - in Day 1: 3:00pm-4:00pm, when Ted Paulson is showing pics of Gaines associates to Kim and Teri, all the picture files have names, in a list which corresponds to the order of the thumbnail photos. Ralph Rosen and Elijah Stram match up, but for the picture of Al Leong, the picture file is called what I make out to be "Neil Nagi". I'm sure the surname Choi, as well as the spelling "Neill", came from the end credits, which really is always a lesser source than in-episode stuff.--Acer4666 16:43, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
- My mistake - I think "Choi" doesn't come from the credits but the 24 trading card game, making it even further down the canon scale. I don't think that name being matched to that character on screen is less certain than, say, Conrad Haas, where the name is assigned to a completely random guy! I'd vote to follow the canon hierarchy for this--Acer4666 21:20, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
- But there's no proof that the name links to Neill's face, beyond the gut desire for the Asian name to link to the Asian face. Additionally, that could arguably be CTU's available working alias or alternate name (kind of like how Jack knew Tomas Sherek by an incorrect name prior to Day 4). Blue Rook talk contribs 21:30, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
- But there are seven photos and seven names. The first three in order link up to what the photos have written on their placards. I will bet any money that the placards the other guys are holding up are the same as the file names. And that is definitely Al Leong in the photo, same beard and same hair. It cannot be a coincidence that Neil, Al Leong's in-universe name, matches up to the filename (which as I say I feel sure is what is written on his placard). I'm not linking up the name and photo because of asian-ness - the Neil name is the second to last filename, and Al Leong's photo is the second-to-last photo. The names on the placards aren't CTU's aliases, they are names from the police departments, ie names provided when the people where arrested. You don't get aliases on mugshot placards, if the real name is unknown then it would say that on the placard. I think this is the show makers providing a surname for Neil, and the TCG guys not watching the show carefully enough--Acer4666 21:39, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
- I'd say this is kind of the most commonly used name precedent. Teri relates someone calling him Jenson, and then she too repeats that name to Ted Paulson. It's true that one of Roy Mercer or Jenson is a false name/nickname/alias - but both sources come from the show, and Jenson is the most recognisable and commonly-used of the two. We address the issue in the article body and BGIN, but the title of the article remains Jenson.
- However with this Neill/Neil situation, we have only one source from the show (Neil Nagi). Sources for "Neill", and the surname "Choi", are of a lesser canon standing and should only be used if there are no conflicting details from the show, which in this case there are. However, we mention them in the BGIN of this article. Does that seem ok?--Acer4666 10:56, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- On a side note, had this been discovered a few years ago and added to the wiki, I'm sure the trading card would read "Neil Nagi"!--Acer4666 10:58, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
- I'm pretty certain of only one L. It is bad quality photo, but here is an enlarged version. I make the N, the E, the I, the L, and no more, just a four letter word. Whenever I take screenshots the quality is reduced from what I'm seeing when going through the dvd frame-by-frame, so perhaps the pic is not the best illustrator of it.--Acer4666 11:55, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry I'm late to the game here, guys, but it took me a while to get around to checking this out. Is there any reason we can't assume that "Neill Choi" is one of Nagi's aliases, rather than an error? I know the first and last names only come from official OOU sources, but unlike the "Erica Farrell" situation, I don't see any actual contradiction with IU facts.
And the most-commonly-used-name rule doesn't apply to Jenson, Acer. By your own explanation above, the mugshot must be his real name, with "Jenson" being an alias or nickname. According to the MoS, we don't use nicknames or aliases when real names are available (unless the previous name is completely discarded, ie. Ted Cofell and Dana Walsh), so his article needs to be moved to "Roy Mercer". --proudhug 03:04, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
- I guess Neill Choi could be an alias, but would that change the article all that much? To be honest, with enough mental gymnastics you can explain the Erica Farrell situation to not be a contradiction - Farrell is actually Jamey's maiden name (she reverted back to it once she split with Kyle's father) and her mother got re-married to someone called Vasques. Tony referred to Erica's current, married surname, whereas the credits were referring to her previous name, Farrell. Or is there EU stuff that I don't know about?
- Hmm..I guess my argument for keeping Jenson as the article title would be:
- You say that "Jenson" must be an alias or nickname - but we don't know that for certain, it could well be that he changed his name, legally, just like Dana Walsh and Ted Cofell. We can't say for certain whether it's nickname or real name, but what we can say is that at the time of Day 1, he was being called Jenson, and that was the name he was most commonly known by.--Acer4666 09:33, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
It would change the BGIN a bit and the alias would be listed in the sidebar, that's it.
FACTU explains that Jamey married Derek(?) Farrell, so it makes the credits a direct contradition in that case.
If "Jenson" had instead been something like "Bugsy" or "Toots" or "Turtle" would you still be making the same argument? My point is that we can be fairly certain that "Roy Mercer" was his actual name, at least at some point, while Jenson we don't know. We can make a reasonable assumption with the former, but not the latter. --proudhug 13:05, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
- I think the only reason you "don't know" about the name Jenson being an alias is because he is a bad guy - I'm sure this discussion wouldn't be happening if the same thing had happened with Steven or someone. I think there's a tendency to let imagination fire up when talking about the bad guys.
- To state the bare facts - we don't know about the "realness" of either of the names. What we do know is - he was known as Jenson on Day 1, and known as Roy Mercer at some point prior to Day 1. One may be more likely to be real than the other given the circumstances - but we can't be certain either way, therefore we go with most commonly used name, don't we?
- And no, I wouldn't be arguing the same thing if it was Toots or Bugsy. But similarly, when I hear this guy getting called "dog" I don't make a named article for him called Dog - I can tell it's not a real name. Jenson however, is a real name, and doesn't make sense as a nickname--Acer4666 22:01, July 24, 2011 (UTC)
- I just remembered the context in which the word "Jenson" was spoken: Teri said something like "I think I heard them call him Jenson". This changes the discussion for me, because of the relatively low degree of certainty of her account. We have an admittedly low-certainty account from a severely traumatized woman, and a different name printed on a police dossier. At this point I think a move to Roy Mercer is clear. Blue Rook talk contribs 04:03, July 25, 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, I concede now; the article should be called Roy Mercer. But just before the move, I'd like to check it's definitely Roy and not Ray--Acer4666 08:17, July 25, 2011 (UTC)